Lucas Camargo on Wellfed Design Podcast EP: 21

‍Jon Sorrentino: [00:00:38] My guest is Brazilian motion in 3D artists, Lucas Camargo.

You may have seen as some of his fictional characters online through social media, under the name untitled army. His work portrays emotions and experiences. We are all too familiar with. And prior to letting his creations run wild. Lucas has worked as a creative director in the advertising industry. He now says he's just a puppet of a bigger art master plan that might take him nowhere, but helps them to struggle through life.

Lucas, thank you so much for joining me.

Lucas Camargo: [00:01:51] Thank you. Thanks for inviting me.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:01:52] I'm very excited to have you as a guest because your work is, is very, uh. Very unique. It stands out in a lot of what's being created in culture today, but you're also very hard to find online and some of our past experience before we jump into some of that, you just came back from a conference called Pictoplasma.

Lucas Camargo: [00:02:10] Ya. Exactly.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:02:11] How was that?

Lucas Camargo: [00:02:12] That was amazing. It was, um, a first time I speak as an artist and it was like a great experience to see other artists speaking and like kind of share some of 'em our similar struggles  and some are similar feelings, but um, at the same time, like get in contact with people that loves my work for kind of like the first timing, like person, not just online through Instagram.

So it was like a, a really a positive experience for me. I got really excited and more like I'm wanting to do this kind of like talks and feeling like, inspired to talk about my work.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:02:48] And Pictoplasma is specifically a conference around character development.

Lucas Camargo: [00:02:53] Yes, exactly. So they kind of, they've been around for a long time.

I remember seeing them when I was in college, like they had like these big books of like characters kind of like pulling a many illustrator's characters. And the characters are always like weird. I have like something I special in unique and they got in contact with me, uh, in the beginning of the year since, uh, my work was like starting to, to be around like many, its socials media stuff.

So they saw me and they kind of invited me to be part of it, and it was, I was so happy because I followed them like for like more than 10, 12 years or something. So I was really excited to be part of like the conference here in New York because they're based in Berlin, but they have a version of it in New York, so it's really fun.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:03:39] That's very cool. Yeah. You grew up in Brazil?

Lucas Camargo: [00:03:42] Yeah. So I am born, I was born in Brazil. I can, uh, I mean, it's this small, like town in Brazil. Call uh, the translation would be like new horizon. Um, and it's, it's like, uh, in the San Paulo state, which is like the, the main tate in Brazil. But I grow up there and, uh, I did design school, uh, when I was around 17, and I started my career as a designer.

And eventually I ended, uh, going to Sao Paulo, which is a capital in Sao Paulo state. And I started work with advertising, which was like in Brazil, advertising is sort of like a hub for many different creatives because there's not much outlets of creative. Like in U.S. For instance, if you write a book, you write a book.

If you make a film, you make film, like in Brazil, like all these people are in the agency because there's not much places that pay.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:04:37] Sure as well that's the only outlet that helps supplement that life.

Lucas Camargo: [00:04:42] Exactly. So I ended up at agency and I work there. There was a Saatchi in Brazil and I worked there for a long time and eventually through another agency here in a U.S. Ogilvy, I kind of like came in 2010 to New York. Yeah.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:05:00] You said you went to design school.

Lucas Camargo: [00:05:02] Yeah.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:05:02] When you're around 17 before that, were you already somewhat leaning into a creative path? Were you interested in that? What were you, what were you doing when you were younger?

Lucas Camargo: [00:05:09] So it's funny because I. I mean it's, it might be like probably one of my first memories is like trying to copy like a Scooby-Doo, like drawing.

So I always memory of like drawing, it's there since the beginning. Growing up, I always like even like bought comics more for the imagery than for the stories and stuff. And when I was teenager, I was very into caricatures. So there was a, a part of my life that that was like doing like caricatures and, and I was like, ah, being part of like tournament's in Brazil. And that's the thing. Like there's, I really loved like many, like different areas of creativity. And I started with that, like more into illustration and like an, eventually I went to design school, which was. Something that I was like, okay, maybe being like a designer, I can make money.

Like, because I, I was like, it's hard if you want to be artists in Brazil, there's not much where you can go and like design seem like to be like a place and kind of let me like, okay. Design might be like

Jon Sorrentino: [00:06:15] financially it might be.

Lucas Camargo: [00:06:16] Yeah.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:06:17] What kind of characters were you drawing?

Lucas Camargo: [00:06:19] I mean up to like very recently, my whole artistic like experience was much more like.

In the beginning was much more like, okay, I want to learn how to draw. So, so everything I was into was like kind of like getting, like, I need to really do like a well proportion, like everything, like perfect kind of stuff. And when I was in caricatures, it was when I kind of started to distort shapes and things, but very like more organic and crazy like shapes out of it.

But I always love, like illustrate and eventually. That, um, led me into like start to do like weird characters when it was, when I was already like an adult when I was at ad agency. Okay.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:07:04] Cause some of the work now, I mean, you know, some of the work that I've come in contact to and I'm very familiar with now, is almost a result of that being able to explore as a child with, you know, form and figure and these abstractions.

So you go through design school, you eventually end up at Saatchi and Saatchi in Latin America and Brazil. What was some of the work that you were coming across while you were exploring the industry.

Lucas Camargo: [00:07:27] Well, when I was on the agency, like I was mainly like working with these digital stuff and I remember being, when I went to Sao Paulo is when I really got sposed to like some sort of graffiti culture and even like I was friends with like these amazing guys called Mulheres Barbadas is like bearded women.

And these guys were like amazing, like a duo. Like illustrating, they kind of like have a really like fun, like characters and stuff. I remember like seeing that and like, Oh, I love that. So I got exposed to this whole culture of like very, very colorful, like street art and like stuff. And then is when I kind of like started to explore my more like this, like, Oh, like developing like a style or something like that. So it was when I was starting to work with advertising and expose it to like this kind of like places. Cause Sao Paulo is like a very interesting city. Like there's so many like amazing artists doing like street art that's like unbelievable.

So you get like the Osgemeos, which was like, um, one of the famous ones like twin brothers. They're just like amazing, colorful artwork. So in like my timing, Sao Paulo was like very inspiring by, by being exposed to that. Because when I was in the inner country area, I was more in a bubble. But then in there I was kind of like more, uh, expose it in.

And then I was, when I, I actually the untitled army is something, people hear now and are recognizing now with these characters. But it's something, it started there.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:09:04] That name has been with you for awhile.

Lucas Camargo: [00:09:06] Yes, and it's, it's funny because it's like, I didn't plan the name, but the name now to me, makes a lot of sense to what I do, but when I started doing it, I like, I was more like.

Oh, I'm, I want to come up with like a name and so I can do like art, but I didn't knew what I wanted to do. And then I remember I didn't speak English before I came to us. So zero English, I remember like opening like a Photoshop and there's like always on Photoshop. There's like untitled on the top. And that thing to me was a ward that I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't see untitled.

I would see like Unitle or like I would see like a mix.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:09:45] Trying to translate it.

Lucas Camargo: [00:09:46] Yeah, so I really like the sequence of characters in that word. And like there was something, Oh then I realize, okay, it's like, not like no name or something like that. So then I like it and it was kind of like, and mix it with army because I wanted to be like, Oh that's cool.

Like army. Cause like I have like so many styles and like, so I kind of mashed that into for me it was kind of like I created that name and it was like a side project always like, because advertising can be like very frustrating for art directors. If they have, um, sort of like need to

Jon Sorrentino: [00:10:25] Produce outside.

Lucas Camargo: [00:10:26] Produce outside and kind of like express themselves.

So I always like in the beginning I remember thinking like, Oh, I'm going to be like, do like Batman during the day I'm going to be like Bruce Wayne and at night, I'm going to be like doing art and stuff and be like punk and being Batman. But that was sort of like the way I saw in the beginning. And kind of, it was with me all these time, like all the time I was doing advertising, I had the project with me.

So if I did like I have so many drawings and like I, I was like exploring. Or I painting, like exploring like different medias. Always kind of like trying to up my craft because it's something I really like to, to be involved in the craft. And eventually the Untitled Army was like a gag was like just a name that I had that recently it kind of, I embrace it back when I kind of like started to do these characters I am doing now.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:11:28] So it's, it's, it's interesting to hear that untitled army is a result of even as far back as when you were in Brazil and it's a side hustle, something that you've probably had for more than 15 years.

Lucas Camargo: [00:11:40] Yeah.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:11:40] And your work at that time is taking form in paintings and illustrations and drawings all the while a year holding down a job in advertising and very much, I think a familiar story for a lot of creatives here in the city. You know, they're, they have to figure out that kind of medium of holding down and paying rent while also being able to kind of express themselves outside in the ways that they want to.

after a few years at the agency in Sao Paulo, you said you were able to kind of make the shift or the move over to New York. How'd that come about?

Lucas Camargo: [00:12:14] Yeah, so. At that time there was no, like Instagram or anything. There was like flickr, like, so I had like some of my art on, on, on those websites and somebody at Ogilvy here, a Brazilian guy, uh, he saw me and he invited me to a freelance and eventually they liked my work and they just like hire me.

So I kind of followed, it was like, I had like already, like a good position in Brazil. Like my career was like established but then I came here. It was like, I didn't speak any English, so like at the beginning was like a, this experience of like, first you go like you born again because like you don't speak a language, you have to work on that language.

And the way you speak influence how people perceive you. And like you might be a genius inside, but outside people might be like, Oh, there's like a dumb guy. Like where something like that.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:13:09] There is a big barrier that, that communication barrier.

Lucas Camargo: [00:13:11] Yeah. And, but at the same time, like there was that opportunity. I mean, I remember like when I was 17 in college and I wasn't in the inner country area.

I was fine. Like with life for, I was like kind of like, okay. But as I was growing up older and like being pushed like to the Capitol and like once I got to the Capitol, that thing like, okay, that's enough. And then what's next? So getting outside of the country was that sort of like, okay, I have to go out.

Because the first time I remember like traveling to another country, I felt like, dude, like I'm, I'm missing out a lot of stuff. I cannot be locked in Brazil. I need to go out . Because I do feel like I have some sort of talent and I need to explore that in a way. So that was kind of like the feeling behind, like I got an opportunity and I was like, okay, I'll do it.

Even if I don't speak English, I'll try.

Yeah, exactly.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:14:06] So were you, so in that. I imagine there was a little bit of a transition period where you were kind of like freelancing remote and eventually you then made the move over to New York full time.

Lucas Camargo: [00:14:15] So it was like I was working, I was full time in Brazil.

I got a job, I quit. Then came. It was kind of like, cool. So was that kind of sweet? Yeah.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:14:25] What kind of, what was the work involved at Ogilvy?

Lucas Camargo: [00:14:28] So Ogilvy was like, basically. I worked with like clients like Ikea or American Express, so I was like working on with IBM, like, so I worked from digital work to films and like the working there, like the difference in the, the agencies in Brazil and us, like in Brazil, you work a lot. Here, you work a lot, but in Brazil you work a lot.

Um, so I was kind of. It's like, like Rambo. So when I got here, like I saw all these people struggling and then for me it was like a day in the park because I was like, guys don't know how it is in Brazil. I was like, and so I had this almost like a feeling like the challenge wasn't like that that much because like.

I was exposed to something like way more like stressful, but with time, like I felt this stress was more not being able to be creating the stuff that I wanted to create. Like,  here I felt there was more constraint creatively like the, because of course it's different markets like is different.

Even like visual language and um, I was exposed to a language that's much more colorful, much more like in your face. And here it's a little bit different. So in the beginning was fun, but with time it was just like making me like tired and not like being too much happy about it. Yeah.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:15:52] You mentioned a little bit about like you're doing a cross between digital and film, and I just want to.

Clarify a little bit. What defines digital work for you?

Lucas Camargo: [00:15:59] Yeah, so digital, like for instance, when I was in Brazil, I was mainly working with digital. So at that time I was creating like websites and it was a different period. It was like 10 years ago, and that time there was like flash, which was like this animation tool.

So I was like keying with flash. I would animate things and make them like look like amazing. So there was like these explosion of like hot sites and today there is not much. That's gone because it's a different, like it's more product focus is not much about like these little campaigns on websites. So that was digital for me.

It was like working with websites more creatively. It was not, not so like product. And then eventually I moved into like creating like the whole campaigns, which means like I will take care of film, I can take care of like praying and other parts of it, including digital. But with time I will have the team that would be dealing with stuff.

And, and I was more exposed to it at some points, like more into like just producing films, which would be the more like responsibility for

Jon Sorrentino: [00:17:07] Commercials, campaigns

Lucas Camargo: [00:17:09] For that creatives. Yeah. So that's the kind of like transition. And I like it because I was exposed to digital culture. I learned a lot.

And then with time I was moving more into like the, the films and the commercials that are more traditional. And it was a fun experience too, to be traveling around the world shoot like commercials. So it was like a fun, yeah.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:17:31] And you sort of talked about how like you were able to be more creative and the Latin American market then when you were in New York.

And I'm curious, is that just, what do you think informs that, what do you think defines that kind of, that constraint? You know, why do you think that is.

Lucas Camargo: [00:17:46] Well, I always thought that first, like I was saying, like I thought for me, like I always saw the Brazilian agencies like this funnel of much more creative people.

So then the competition was much more. For creativity was much more up. So then it's, it's kind of like junior people are like amazing. Everybody was like amazing in here is not, that is not that people are not like a good, it's just a different thing. It's just like, since all of this creative creativity is just spread out in the agencies, just like a job.

And I feel like it's less the pressure about being creative. It's more pressure of the business, but this thing is changing in Brazil as well, so everything now it's less creative and more focus on data and like numbers and all that stuff.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:18:35] Is there a moment of this or is this a part of, this is on the client side as well, like they're asking for more or they're asking for projects or concepts that are a little bit more informed by data, but a little bit safer on the creative?

They don't want to like overstep or anything like that.

Lucas Camargo: [00:18:50] Yeah, no, I think that's it. Yeah. The more we know about stuff, less creative we are with everything. It's like movies, like we're never going to have like periods like the 80s where. Everything was guessing. So then we're producing everything and then you have the best and the worst, and now you just have the middle or something that feels like bland because you know what people are going to buy and you know where you need to hit.

And it's the same thing with creativity in general because. The agencies, they know, like the market, they know the targets, so they know what they have to do. It's less about like, uh, coming up with something that nobody is expecting and getting like this big like top mark of like being innovative. It's more, yeah, it's more kind of like everything's getting more plain in a way.

But, um, yeah, that's something I felt like over the years kind of getting more, um. Eaten up by data and numbers and that kind of stuff.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:19:49] Are there any brands or agencies or studios that you think are kind of reacting differently or actually putting out more creative like that, things that you admire, that stand out to you in the industry today?

Lucas Camargo: [00:20:00] I don't know. I feel like, uh, agencies the way they are, they, they either gonna die or evolve to something else. I feel future is going to go around like content. I feel because content is something, like everything can be content, like all audio can be content, like a films or animations, like everything.

When it's seen through that like lens, you can be like small and then you can work direct with the client. So I think whoever is doing that direction, I think there might be in the sort of like right path because it's the less about like, Oh, I am going to be here like crunching like ideas for months, which is what I felt in the agency. Like crunching ideas that never got produced is going to be much more like about like who is telling like good stories and partner with them.

I think brands are in the future might be going more towards that. I want to tell my story with this partner that has this voice. Then getting somebody that's just like, I feel like. Agencies at the way they are now. They're, they just become commodity. They just become something that is being around for a long time now, and they're just like.

Okay. Give us your money and we're going to give you some ideas and, but you're never getting like too much really action happen or I don't like it just felt like not producing that much.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:21:25] I very much agree with that. This agency convention is shifting now, you know, within the industry of design and creative and advertising.

Agencies have to do so much more now. I mean, I've seen a little bit of just being on the opposite side of the hiring of the agency, so I completely agree with you on there. Um, how long did you spend at Ogilvy before your next move, which I wasn't able to find. So, I mean, could you kind of fill in the gaps a little bit?

Lucas Camargo: [00:21:49] That's interesting cause Ogilvy, I remember I got to U.S. In six months, I knew, I hate it.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:21:56] The U.S. or Ogilvy?

Lucas Camargo: [00:21:57] Ogilvy. Uh, but here's the thing, like I knew like advertising wasn't for me. I kind of thought like, uh, like all of you might be my last agency, and it was. The way I, in the beginning I felt, because I just felt like, I don't know, like this isn't, it's not connecting with me.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:22:15] The work?

Lucas Camargo: [00:22:16] The work yeah. Is not, there's nothing wrong with the agents, like all agents are the same. It's just, and there are people that loved working with advertising. I'm just saying like, I wasn't. The right person, the right creative to be in that environment, but in my mind it was like, it doesn't work for me to be jumping around agencies in U.S.

I'm just going to stick here. I know I don't like it, but it's okay. I'll do the best I can, and I did the best I could all the time I was there. But in my head, I always had this dream of like becoming an artist and getting out of there and like doing something else, which took a long time because I, I had to figure out green card and a lot of stuff in the middle.

Uh, so when it came to that point, it was already like eight years. Gone and I hated it on the first six months.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:23:06] Wow. So you really stuck it out.

Lucas Camargo: [00:23:08] Yeah.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:23:08] I mean you mentioned that, you know, one is like the decision, cause you were dealing with kind of the process of getting a green card and things like that.

Um, in terms of like starting to build this runway to become an artist, what were some of the things that you did? Was it just like putting in the hours, getting out of work and then putting in more hours.

Lucas Camargo: [00:23:25] Yeah, so my plan was like the way my work is now, it wasn't planned. It's an accident. What I was doing was actually a different, because when I was in the agency, I figured like I like 3D and I like animation.

Like animation was kind of like. Cause when I was in college I thought like, Oh I might work like with different areas of design. And I did that. I'd work in print for a long time. I work on digital, I work on films. So I work like on all of these things and animation and directing was this thing that I never had done for real.

And. Like two years before I quit Ogilvy. I kind of putt in my head like, that's something I want to do. Like I had to like play with 3D before, but I never really learned. So what I did is like I, I literally started to watch every single YouTube video, like 24 hours. I was like watching everything and like trying to learn as much as I could because I was like already old in my career as a creative, like I was at a point that's kind of like, okay. And that's why it took so long because you get to a point that you're too attached and you're too comfortable with your health insurance, like and all that stuff that you feel like the jump is going to be like the.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:24:42] You feel like you're jumping of a higher building.

Lucas Camargo: [00:24:43] Yeah. The hit is going to be like a lot of when you jump. Um, so I was preparing myself. Almost like creating this parachute of like, okay, I'm going to learn all this stuff, so when I quit I might be able to like figure something. So I learned 3D in a short period of time and I started to produce this little animations that has like little cars and I like that are kind of like famous like movies ohmage and that thing like I, it was like a, a way to like learn 3D and at the same time was kinda getting me exposed.

So all these movement of like learning 3D eventually I was friend with like a design studio owned by Brazilian guys called Roof studio. And we start to talk about, Oh, maybe if I quit, like maybe I could work with you guys, you know, because they have done work for me at Ogilvy. They had produced like work for me.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:25:39] So you already had that relationship.

Lucas Camargo: [00:25:40] I knew them and I love their work and they're like Brazilian. So we had the like a lot in common. So. I was kind of like getting my head around, okay, I'm going to quit. I'm going to make less money. But I think it's like a good experience in and it took me like around two years to actually quit and like being able to move on because I was learning all this stuff.

And what happened is like, I didn't like these characters in this stuff. That's the area that you're not, you're not gonna find anywhere. How does it start it and why it started? Because that it's, it's where, uh, the fun, not fun, but kind of like the irony of everything happens is like, so the same week I was quitting Ogilvy, my wife left me.

So it was like. I was building up these kind of like, I'm going to get out of advertising, everything's going to be fine, but I didn't realize that wasn't only me that was unhappy. Then my wife was like unhappy too, and it happened at the same week when I quit Ogilvy, I was ready to move on. She like broke up with me.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:26:51] So there was a lot of, there's a lot of things going on. It wasn't just like this, this jumping into this uncertainty of your job, like also your relationship.

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

Lucas Camargo: [00:27:02] So there was all that was like, it's almost like I have to quit as soon as I can, but I wasn't doing that and, and I was dragging like for a long time, like quitting.

And when I did, she was like over it all ready and. That to me was like, Oh my God. Like I did all of that like 10 like whatever, like seven years in U.S., all this work, everything I've done like for nothing. I was kind of like starting like a new job that I was like very insecure about because I started in the studio and like the guys were like.

I learned 3D, but the guys that I agree using like another 3D software. So I was like, fine. Everything I learned was useless cause then I  going to have to learn in a month. Like everything again. So it was like this period where I kind of like, I was broken. I was kind of like fuck. Like my work is, I don't know where it's going.

I had this idea of, OK. I want to be like a director. I want to work on my art but my art was always like, escape. Was always like aesthetic explorations of my craft, but there was never like a message behind it. And that was something like, I have a, a was kind of a little bit frustrated because I never found like really my voice for everything I did before that moment.

So when that happened to me, like it's when the untitled army actually born. Yes. It came back and it was like, it's an experience that it started like very, like, it was hard. Like the beginning was really hard because I remember like the first, uh, maybe three months, I was like. On the couch, like I couldn't, I was like crying on like curb your enthusiasm.

I was crying like on

Jon Sorrentino: [00:28:53] Watching the movies.

Lucas Camargo: [00:28:54] Like everything was like, emotional

Jon Sorrentino: [00:28:59] You were going through a lot at the time. Holy cow.

Lucas Camargo: [00:29:01] I was like, and at the same time I was not producing anything. I was kind of like very like feeling like a big failure in that sense because it was like, I don't have anything to say.

I was. I was kind of like trying to fix and like maybe trying to go back with my wife and like nothing was working. And there was a funny thing because I remember after like a few months, I remember there was one thing that always just stuck in my head. I remember watching like a documentary of um, uh, there was this artists called Crumb.

He was like, uhm famous in the eighties, seventies, and I saw this documentary of him like a long time ago. I remember seeing him like, cause he always carries around like a sketchbook and like a pan. And he's always like doing like line work. And I saw that in the documentary, him on a bus station and a bus stop and I was like, Oh man, that's so cool.

I wish I had that. Like will of going out and like be drawing like. I remember it was when I was in this dark time, like it came back to me, this image of like a romantic artistic thing of like going out and be sketching on the coffee shop and be out

Jon Sorrentino: [00:30:15] Taking in new surroundings

Lucas Camargo: [00:30:16] Yea, because I was very like much more stuck at home and not going out, like just being by myself, that kind of stuff.

But that was like dude I'm alone. There's nothing left. There's just like. I have to get out. So that's when everything started. Everything I have now is started on that point of me like walking out, going to the near coffee shops, sitting down, and I was like, okay, I'm going to sketch without a judgment. I'm going to like embrace chaos.

I'm going to just like draw whatever comes to my mind. And in the beginning I was like, Oh, that's a silly thing. And then I did that one day, two days. I did for a week, two weeks a month. And I realize I was doing that. I started to do that every day. It was, it became like a ritual. And it was interesting because the beginning, the, the drawings were like very abstract, but with time they started to become like, uh, like I would have like figures like human figures and they could see with time, there's like some themes around.

Like my marriage, some things around like me, thinking about life and stuff. So there was a period before I was doing the characters I do now, where I was kind of like digesting.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:31:31] It was like working through emotions. You're working through a lot of thoughts that you're having you're dealing internally with.

And I think it's interesting cause like you mentioned a few things, like one, you start to learn 3D modeling. You're very, at the very beginning, you start to teach yourself this through any means necessary. So YouTube videos and things like that. But then you're using and what I was interested to ask you is like you were working through characters that you had grown up with.

So like maybe some of this is more recent, but like I saw like you were into Ghostbusters and you went to thriller, you're going to Star Wars. And I know there's probably more recent versions of those works, but that was interesting to you for you were able to then kind of bring that into being interested to learning these things.

And then as you start to. Figure out your process on how you're going to create work and potentially try to find your voice. Um, it's something that you're practicing every day. Yeah. And again, you're working through emotions and thoughts in your head that you probably have never been exposed to. And it's a lot to kind of break down some of your characters.

The abstractions of them are almost like poems.

Lucas Camargo: [00:32:40] Yeah. And that seemed trusting because, um, my. Like there is like a a side of me, like you were saying like I really love like pop culture in general. Like that's something always appear in my work and, but I always was like, if you see my previous work, they were like very busy.

Like there's like a lot of details like. And the stuff I do now, they're like very simple things and that it's kind of like one thing that happens to me. It's like when I started to sketch and I was just like, really at some point I wasn't, I wasn't thinking about it. I was just like drawing, drawing, drawing, drawing, drawing.

But after a few months. I remember some of the drawings, I was even like started to like writing like balloons on it with some like quotes or ideas. So I felt like a need of saying something. Right. But that's the same thing. The visuals are not doing it. And I was struggling because I had something to say.

My drawings were not saying that. So one thing that happens, like at the same time I was sketching and I was doing this stuff like I was living my life, so I was kind of like starting to go out with other people. I was like, um, it was like a Renaissance of everything I loved. So I was kind of like, even like the sketch for me was kind of like, revisiting myself in the way of everything I love, and kind of like going to a core of like whatever I wanted to say.

So there is a few, there is, there were like a few things that happened, like one, there was like this kind of need of saying something. That the things I felt and I was thinking about. And another thing was kind of like I started to get exposed to it and, and I, I sometimes I get very pragmatic. I'll do like a lot of chaos. I like to understand what's going on with me. So I start to figure out, the sketches were kind of like. I'm trying to say something and at some point the forms were getting like more simple and more clear and to a point that they start to do characters. There were like to me in the beginning of the right silly because they were like just like simple constructions, like simple characters doing things.

But then I started to realize the characters, the more simple they were, the more strong the message on them because. All the eye aesthetic thing was out, and I was just getting to the core of like the ideas I wanted. I was like, um, and then I started to like, get very curious about like metaphors and like, um, uh, surrealism and all these kinds of like movements.

And. There was one artist that I love to mention every time that's a filmmaker called, Alejandro Jodorowsky. He is somebody that I stumbled on YouTube and I saw him talking about, um, all these parts of archetypes and metaphors, like his films are like very like crazy. He was doing stuff in the 70s and, and his movies are kind of stuff that you watch it, you don't understand.

What's going on, but something that it keeps like inside of you, like churning, like for a few days. And I got curious about like how you can. How people, like a lot of these artists are creating imagery that sometimes like they are talking straight to something inside of us and we cannot even comprehend what's going on and we're just like communicating into this like raw level.

So I started to give myself more of a direction into that way of understanding what I was trying to say and kind of like putting that in a cohesive way with my designer side, which likes eye, statics and all that stuff. So

Jon Sorrentino: [00:36:26] Textures, colors.

Lucas Camargo: [00:36:28] So the characters were like being shaped by like a voice that I had. And this idea that like the message that I want to talk about, which is like relationships and like love and like existence and everything that I keep thinking all the time.

So. That's where the first character is born. They were born around this, um, sort of like needs of talking. What I was feeling about my, my, my marriage about life and, and there was a funny thing that happens when you lose like bigger things that you're closer to freedom in a way. Because when, once I lost like my wife, I lost my job, that kind of stuff.

Release me to be free to explore some, some things that I will be before, like afraid. And that's why I like the, like the untitled army. It was a name that is started like more than 10 years ago, but when I revisit, I was like, Oh, this is perfect because I don't want to sign my name on these things anymore, so I'm gone and I died.

I'm dead. And that gives me freedom to do whatever I want so I can expose my ideas without having the fear of being judged. And, and sometimes people think it's like a collective, like they don't think it's like one person doing it. And I love that. I love to not being like constrained by my name and who I am, so I can do stuff that sometimes are like very.

They're like heavy. Sometimes they get dark, but they're always like, there's always like a message that people connect with them is not what I want with this is just to allow people to unleash things they have inside of them. Connect with the characters, have a giggle, have a emotion and move on. That's kind of like what I feel good about, like doing this art like it, it started like almost like becoming like a therapy for me because every day I was. And I do that every day.

I do wake up at 7:00 AM or 8:00 AM go to a coffee shop and I draw. I give that one hour every day to sketching. It's like my ritual every day and it's I space where I found like I'm doing like sort of a therapy. It's like a diary, but people don't know if people just see these characters like. And they don't know sometimes, like some of these characters were like really born out of like a tough situation or something like very deep in like that that I was frustrated or there was going through. So there is a lot going on in them, although they're like simple or they have like this friendly and colorful like skin on it.

But the, the, the born of them was like, Oh, this journey of like me trying to find myself again, trying to find a voice. Trying to find like a way to express what I am feeling, you know, like, and, and, and all the struggles that I have in life. Like, so it was like kind of like born out of like that that thing.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:39:43] There's a lot.

Lucas Camargo: [00:39:44] Yeah. I know there's, I there. It's a lot. Yeah.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:39:47] So I just want to see if we can maybe piece together from when you started to work with your friends at over at Roof studio. How long were you there for before or was it another kind of campaign of working there while also working on what would become untitled army?

Lucas Camargo: [00:40:03] Well, I still work with them. That's my, my so cause th that's the thing, like a work with them as a full time director. So my career like that makes money. It's with them. So I started. When I started there, like, uh, they, of course, like they, they were like super, uh, they embrace me. I'm not being like technical a technical guy, but they, they knew I had like a creative, um, power.

So. I kind of like started in the beginning more like learning stuff, but with time I like I learned like, okay, I know how to direct like a film, I know how to direct stuff and I, I'm getting like more comfortable with this stuff. But in parallel, all the work I'm doing with the untitled army, it's influencing what I'm doing there as a director because with time, like people are recognizing me by my artistic voice and they are kind of looking for either for what I do.

And, and even like my creative process is influenced by everything I learned in this last two years because it's not only a like a journey of like healing myself, but it was a journey of learning how I am as an artist, which is, is completely different from what I was before. Like when I was in advertising.

Um, it was a different mindset. Now. I never liked to call myself artist ever. Uh, I thought it was like a scam, like being seen that, but now I don't, I don't care because like the feeling is different. Like I feel like now I created some sort of like, not that I created like, but something sparked it that I feel my work, they're a roof and my personal work is like one.

It's the same creative mind behind it.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:41:56] This like loop of informing your exercises in your rituals, kind of informed the work that you're then outputting for either clients or, you know, professionally, whatever it may be. You sort of touched on a little bit about how your characters have slowly but surely become simplified to having these kind of really interesting textures and colors and the messages become stronger over time as you begin to time sort of chip away at this bigger, larger theme or idea.

And as we're sitting here in your apartment, I noticed that you also have a ton of different paintings around your characters. What forms are you experimenting with these ideas outside and with these characters? I see online, it's a lot of 3d and digital and here it's physical as well as that's something that you're always playing around with.

Lucas Camargo: [00:42:40] Yeah. So I always love to do like physical things like, uh, like oil paintings or like old my treat the stuff. Start with my sketchbook. I walk around with like this tiny sketchbook that looks like a Bible, but it's with me all the time. And so the physical part for me is very important. I do love to have my hands on stuff.

And I, since I learned through the in something I love, like it was like natural for me to start exploring the characters in the 3D world. And when I first started I kind of, I was trying to kind of like break with something like, because the physical world, like there is one thing. That was damaging me a little bit because like if you see like one of the, like these big paintings, this was something that was with me, like for months.

So it wasn't something that was allowing me to evolve because the technique was in front of me. It was between me and like the next me. So once I removed the technique and started to do the 3D in a way that was more fast than I could move to the next character, the next character, the next character.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:43:47] Not being precious about it.

Lucas Camargo: [00:43:49] Yea not being too pressure and finding like a pipeline or a way of working on it.

The way I work now, at least on this character is like I created a way that I can do it like in a few hours, like a new one. If I wanted to do that from scratch, like before, it will take like forever. Maybe like would take like two weeks. And those

Jon Sorrentino: [00:44:09] You have to do all the technicals of like building the canvas

Lucas Camargo: [00:44:11] Yea, building like a lot of stuff like that.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:44:14] Removing the friction and allows for you to just jump back into that.

Lucas Camargo: [00:44:17] I realized once I removed the friction, I started to, because like creating the next piece to me, it's always that thing that it's making my art evolve like so fast. So in the course of like less than a year, like it exploded because I am moving very fast.

I'm not only like sketching every day, but I'm putting out a 3D version of it, which is like a fully, colorfull thing every other day. Like so all day is kind of like sketch and 3D taking turns on my timeline on Instagram, like what's making me move faster in the, not only like the ideas like are getting better with how I formed ideas, because in the beginning.

Of course, right now I kind of like have way in to kind of create the characters. Uh, in the beginning was much more harder. I'll be much more stuck into like similar things, but now I kind of like flow more like into more different constructions. I'm being like less concerned about what's the end result.

I'm, I'm more concerned about making the next one and seeing how different it's going to be and that kind of stuff.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:45:27] So. You've mentioned that like over the last year or so, your work has started to pick up speed. People are starting to notice that I came in contact through social media as well, and you know, now you have these tools like Instagram and behance.

I know a lot of your work is on behance as well. Is there a goal that you have in mind as you continue to work through at this rapid pace? Or is it just to continue to kind of build on your craft and continue to hone that skill?

Lucas Camargo: [00:45:51] Yeah, I think about it in the moment, or at least the last year. I was less worried about the future and more worried about the present and trying to be focused on now. There's a few things I don't know, like, because right now I feel I'm like on a stream of creativity and it's consuming me like 24 hours.

Like of course I have like life or work, but I'm very energized to be creating all the time and I wasn't like that before. And I know I am like that now, but I don't know if I'm going to be like that in the future. And I've seen like other artists, like every artists have like a period of time where they are connected with something.

It's like their own zeitgeist, where it's something that, uh, is there whatever's stream of like creativity it's like very strong. I don't know when mine is going to go away or if it's going to be like this forever. Or remember like seeing like Bob Dylan talking about like, Oh, when I was like whatever that period of time.

I don't know. I was just like sitting down in five minutes. I had like Blow In The Wind, like that kind of stuff. I don't, I cannot reproduce it now that I'm like, old, it was like that period of time there was some sort of like stream of consciousness that was going on. It was like right there. So it was just taking notes.

So that's kind of like how I feel. I'm like taking notes on something that I crossed on. That's very. Rich. So I'm very worried about documenting all of that and the, the, the execution to me, something I want to expand as much as I can because I do have, I can show you later, but I do have like, the characters are starting to do like kind of like in 3D like printed.

Uh, so I am thinking like doing like big sculptures. I'm thinking of like doing oil paintings with them. So. I think that 3D right now is the only media that I can express like fast and have some sort of like finished product. But in my head, I have more than 600 sketches done in less than a year. So.

I have too many ideas too to be carving out to execute it somehow. So I know I want to be starting to do like big paintings. That's my next, I think goal because I don't want to get constrained into the 3D environment. I feel. My work. I want to move us as broadly as I can. I love the, to be in the, the, the 3D space, but I want to be into the art space as well more.

Uh, so that's why I feel like doing sculptures and doing like paintings is like what I have in my head, but I'm not too worried because I know like I have the ideas, I just need the time to paint them. Um, and, and. And that time will come. Yeah.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:48:41] It's really exciting as you show me this 3D figure and in person, and I will make sure to have it somewhere, either on the website.

Um, but Lucas, where can people find more of your work and as you continue to push the mediums, where can they stay in contact with you?

Lucas Camargo: [00:48:54] I guess like Instagram, it's, it's my, my main channel is where people get in touch with me and it's where I post my daily sketches and my, all my work is there. So if it's a closer, you can get to me because I'm like they're all the time, like in sometimes, like of course I update my behance and my website, but Instagram seems to be the tool that I can talk to people. And then if you guys would like follow me on Instagram, you're going to be like on top of your game with me.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:49:24] What is your Instagram username.

It's Untitledarmy. Yeah.

Lucas. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Lucas Camargo: [00:49:30] Thank you. Thank for for inviting me. This is like the first time I speak on a podcast and I'm very happy. Thank you so much.