Louisa Cannell on Wellfed Design Podcast EP: 24

Jon Sorrentino: [00:00:38] I'm excited to welcome my friend and independent illustrator now based out of Brooklyn Louisa Cannell.

Louisa, has completed work for companies like Google, Samsung, Refinery29, Disney, Super Goop, Time's up and the Woman's March. Louisa, thank you so much for joining me today.

Louisa Cannell: [00:01:42] Thank you for having me.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:01:42] As I mentioned, we met each other. Not too long ago, maybe a few years, and to see you grow so much in that time from doing what you could call as like completely opposite work before.

So I'm excited to talk to you a little bit about that today. I saw on your Instagram you recently completed an illustration of one of my favorite artists, Maggie Rogers.

Louisa Cannell: [00:02:02] Oh yes. I did that recently, just as a personal work, experimenting with color and patterns, and I love her.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:02:11] I'm a big fan of Maggie.

Shout out Maggie Rogers. Can you tell me a little bit about Betty and Veronica.

Louisa Cannell: [00:02:17] Mmm. Um, so I, when I was little, I had a pretty hard time learning how to read. Um, and my parents bought me Betty and Veronica Archie comics, um, as a way of helping me use context clues to learn how to read. And from that I became completely obsessed and not just with them, but also with Marvel comics as well.

But I think it really got me interested in dialogue and interested in visual storytelling. Overall.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:02:45] You grew up in DC

Louisa Cannell: [00:02:46] yeah. I grew up in Bethesda, Maryland, and my family that's in Arlington now.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:02:50] Once you kind of got introduced to these Betty and Veronica comics, were you ever trying to draw your own comics or anything like that?

Louisa Cannell: [00:02:56] Yeah, for sure. My mom had a uh, t-shirt company for kids when I was little, and she's a elementary school art teacher now, high school art teacher. Um, so I was always drawing as a kid and, um, just always doodling. I loved all of that and Veronica's outfit. So I'd be drawing those all the time.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:03:12] It was very much Betty, Veronica was a comic about a best of friends and best of enemies.

Louisa Cannell: [00:03:18] Yes.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:03:18] So there were always, I didn't read too much into it, but Betty I guess was, um. Interested in one thing and Veronica was not necessarily a friend and immediate friend, but they would have these overlaps in between the relationships.

Louisa Cannell: [00:03:30] Yeah. There every, I think every comic was like, they're sort of pitted against each other, but sort of not. And it's all like about their feud for Archie. But, um, it's very funny seeing the. TV show now, which is completely different.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:03:43] There's a TV show.

Louisa Cannell: [00:03:44] Oh yeah. It's, it's very dramatic. There's like a murder every episode.

Yeah.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:03:50] So it's not so much a comic anymore. Um, as you were growing up, did you, uh, you know, were you participating in school and like extracurricular activities or were you doing kind of spending your time drawing and things like that?

Louisa Cannell: [00:04:01] Yeah, for sure. Um, I growing up was really interested in art, and then it was on the yearbook and I went to a really small school.

So just doing. The design for the yearbook and just some illustrations for that. Um, but always taking photo classes, drawing classes. Although I knew I wanted to do something in the creative world.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:04:20] You eventually make it to Bowden in college. And, um, you go into studying art history and visual arts, but you were also on the squash team.

Louisa Cannell: [00:04:29] Yeah, I played squash in high school and, um, at the time they're actually, I think they're pretty good now, but at the time Bowden wasn't the best at squashed and they were like, you've held a racquet, you're on the team.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:04:41] What is squash exactly? Cause I don't, uh, I've, I've actually watched a few of the tournament's in grand central that they have, but could you explain a little bit more for the listeners?

Louisa Cannell: [00:04:50] Squash is like racketball pretty much. Um, the, the court's a little bit different in the balls different. Um, but it's, uh, it's a great game. It's really, really hard exercise, which is great. I mean. I'm not just trying to be self deprecating, I'm not very good at it. Um, but it's really fun and it, it was a great way for me to make friends.

I'm still really good friends with a lot of my teammates and, um, yeah, it was an awesome time.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:05:14] Definitely really intense one-on-one kind of sport too.

Louisa Cannell: [00:05:17] Yeah. I have. I definitely cried on court.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:05:21] Just absolute passion, determination. Um, Bowden is in Maine. Is there anything better than a Maine lobster roll?

Louisa Cannell: [00:05:29] No, there's not.

And um, Portland, Maine is just having such a rising right now. It's, if anyone is looking for a vacation spot, it's so much fun. Such good food and great design too.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:05:41] I actually almost went to school up in Maine. A good ways away from, say New Jersey in New York. Yeah, I looked at, I was looking at MECA for a bit and um, at the time I just got really wigged out.

I think I was just a little afraid.

Louisa Cannell: [00:05:53] Very snowy.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:05:55] I saw that the school also shared at the beginning of the. Of 2019 a few of your illustrations that you did for Valentine's day.

Louisa Cannell: [00:06:02] Oh yeah. That's really fun. Um, they're so sweet. Um, they reached out to me now and then I just actually wrapped another project with them.

Um, and it's really nice to be able to work with them. My parents both went there too, so it's definitely sentimental. Yeah.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:06:16] Um. Going through school, I saw that you, you interned at a ton of different places as a ton of different positions as well. You weren't just like a design intern or anything like that.

You started off as a photography assistant. You did a design internship at Nat Geo, uh, and you also eventually made it to company called the specialists limited doing fabrication. Props for movies and things like that. Um, before we get to the specialist. Cause I think that's really interesting. What were you doing in the, in the two previous internships?

Louisa Cannell: [00:06:46] So, um, I knew I wanted to work in magazines and media in general. Growing up, my dad had worked at the press for Smithsonian, so I was always around books and publishing and things like that. And I loved it. And. Nat Geo is just like pinnacle. It's, I mean, that's cool.

It's amazing. Don't you do that?

Well, so my dad actually passed away when I was little, but, Oh.

But yeah. But, um, I mean, it was definitely really sentimental for me to be working in DC I think it's one of the main. Magazines. It's in DC, and that's probably wrong, but, um, you can fact check that. Uh, but it was a really amazing opportunity. And, um, you know, it was intern work. It was like categorizing photographs and, you know, checking all the, sure.

They probably do use, but K fours, like the publishing tool that we use. I'm just like checking everything. And, um, it was really great to learn from then. And then from there, um, I got an internship at Brides magazine, um, and I was in the art department there, so that was a mix of doing photo research and doing some designs and some photoshop.

And the bride's team was awesome. They are just so much fun and they taught me so much.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:08:02] I mean, we were just talking about a mutual friend who just had a wedding and ends up in the magazine and all that stuff. So I imagine, they're very organized and very on point and very key to detail and things like that.

Louisa Cannell: [00:08:13] And they, um, I think the people would think of people working at brides as being totally wedding obsessed, but they were all total goofballs. And, um, just having fun with it. But those were both my introduction to the media world.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:08:26] How did you end up at the specialist, which is, you know, making props for movies and films and things like that.

Louisa Cannell: [00:08:32] So after college, I moved to New York and I very, my brother was very nice to let me stay at his place. Until I found a job. Always thankful for that. And so I got a job through another Bowden alumni working at the specialist, and the specialist make all the most of the fake guns for movies or like fake armor or things like that.

And they make it. So like if you have a, you know, a huge army of people, they're not all carrying heavy guns. So they would make them out of like light styrofoam so that it looks like it. But, you know,

Jon Sorrentino: [00:09:05] movie magic.

Louisa Cannell: [00:09:07] but, when I was there, um, I was making fake passports, fake tickets, fake cereal boxes, which is so much fun because I would make all the names of them like Louisa's, you know?

Oh. Breakfast or so, like

Jon Sorrentino: [00:09:24] Easter eggs sprinkled around and they were just like, Louisa, is that done? You're like, yeah, that's the name is perfect. So just like a few digits off.

Louisa Cannell: [00:09:31] It's fine. It's fine. Um, and I, it was really fun living in New York then and just sort of like figuring the city out in general. Um, and that's actually from there.

I went to bride, so fake guns, two wedding dresses, or it's a big jump.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:09:46] So it was sort of like a little bit of break before you decided to really lean into the idea of getting into a magazine. Yes. Um, I think you graduated in 2013 and then you, Conde Nast is brides. So you're doing that work and then.

You were there for what, two years or so?

Louisa Cannell: [00:10:03] I was interning at brides for just like the intern three month and then they, their HR department placed me at Conde Nast Traveler. So I was placed in the photo department at Conde Nast traveler. And, um, I was there for, I think a little over a year and a half maybe.

Um, I was doing photo production, which was an amazing time learning about production. It was like. Both. You know, working with photographers, um, organizing all the edits, um, prepping for the shoots. I learned from some really amazing people there. I'm one of my mentors there. I'm still close with and she's wonderful to work with.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:10:43] I mean, this whole time, like while you're in school, you're, you're really kind of testing all these different, like, directions, right? You're doing design, you're doing like physical making of, of stuff and things. And then you're also doing a lot of photography and, and work like that. Not necessarily illustration at the moment or more directly, but like just all the things that are around that.

Um, then, you know, not after, not too long after Conde Nast, you begin at Viceland.

Louisa Cannell: [00:11:10] When I was at Traveler, I really liked it but I think I was feeling that sort of like after college itch for something new and exciting. And, um, I met with CJ from Vice. Yeah. And he was telling me about it and it just sounds so exciting.

And I honestly didn't know that they were starting a TV channel at the time. Um, and it sort of all, I went for the interview and it was lots of sort of not clear. And then. Sort of pieces started coming together and then, um, I got the job. And, uh, I think I was probably like one of the first official hires for the TV channel and there I was.

Um, the creative services coordinator. So working with all the editors on their trailers and making sure that they had everything they need and making sure that their schedule is run well. So it was actually sort of a step back from creative in many ways because it was a lot of organizing. But that what was nice is that they needed, um.

Someone too who knew how to do photo production. So I was able to sort of jump into that role and work on key art and, um, a lot of the episodic art, which is great.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:12:21] Did you go into the interview with Vice thinking that it was for the magazine at first and that was sort of like the interest?

Louisa Cannell: [00:12:26] Um, I think, I thought that it was for the website.

Yeah.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:12:29] So somewhat editorials. So having that kind of that same environment,

Louisa Cannell: [00:12:33] it definitely had no TV experience. I mean,

Jon Sorrentino: [00:12:35] I don't think any of us really haven't, you know, I met you through Viceland. Um, I joined not too long after the channel launched, and I think one of the first shows that we ended up like really working together was like Wong's World.

Louisa Cannell: [00:12:46] Totally. Yeah. And,

Jon Sorrentino: [00:12:47] you know, again, no TV experience with whatsoever and everyone was just sort of winging it. Um. Did you have a favorite show while you were there?

Louisa Cannell: [00:12:55] I think I really loved all the food shows. I mean, those are just so fun to watch, but I. Yeah. I honestly can't say I watch a ton of it right now.

Maybe

Jon Sorrentino: [00:13:06] it's something like we watched so much of it while we were there to make sure, like everything that we worked on in touch was in line. Otherwise, like we'd probably hear something the next day.

Louisa Cannell: [00:13:14] Absolutely. Yeah. And I feel like my job was sort of to be like, I need to know everything. So I watched everything and I like took notes on all those episodes, so I feel like I knew like.

You know, fuck that's delicious and Wong's world. And uh, Weedeiquette back to front. I really loved to noisy too, but yeah, there were some, there's some great shows in that starting lineup

Jon Sorrentino: [00:13:35] In Viceland you were doing a lot like more logisticals, like making sure everything was running smoothly. You know, working with designers like myself and making sure that I had everything planned out and I knew I was working on.

Um, so you're not really making a lot of stuff at this time, but like is there a moment where you start working on more illustration? Like when does that start for you? Because I think the next move was getting right into that. So like what, what are you doing during the time of Viceland?

Louisa Cannell: [00:14:01] Yeah, so when I was at, still at Traveler, um, I had done a few illustrations for them and it was really my first time doing digital illustration.

I didn't do any digital illustration in college. And. Um, they were so sweet. They, uh, my first article I did was six sodas from around the world. And so I illustrated these sodas and it was so much fun. Um, and they really took a chance on me. What's nice about it was digital. So I feel like then it was okay to take a chance cause you know, just putting it out into the internet,

Jon Sorrentino: [00:14:34] You can change an image it's not like it's printed on a thousand copies.

Louisa Cannell: [00:14:37] Of course. Yeah. So I started doing that then and I really liked it. And I, there were definitely times where I tried to do some illustration at Vice and didn't work out unfortunately, but I always knew that I liked it. So I was, um, coming home after work and illustrating and I'd started working with Goop a little bit back then, just doing some editorial work for them.

And sometimes, you know, doing people's wedding invitations or things like that. Just little things. Um, really fun. And I, but I didn't think that it could be a career. It was more like a fun side.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:15:14] Your friends are like Louisa's creative, like, can she do my wedding invites?

Louisa Cannell: [00:15:17] Yeah.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:15:18] Just kind of picks up from there.

Louisa Cannell: [00:15:19] Yeah, for sure. And also because I didn't go to art school and I was surrounded by so many people that did go to art school, I definitely wasn't thinking that I could do what they could do. Um,

Jon Sorrentino: [00:15:29] it's kind of like. It's like a thought that everyone has, but it's not like that in that sense, right?

Like it's just like people are thinking about things in different ways and they're just constantly thinking about those ideas. So that's what, like, makes them seem more like creative than the other, but it's not, and I think you're a great example of that.

Louisa Cannell: [00:15:47] It definitely just was like little moments along the way where people took chances that sort of built my confidence and I was able to take that next step and say, Oh, you know, I can do this.

I can try this. And so from there, um at Vice. I started drawing the hosts of our shows just to, cause I thought it was funny, like I drew Mattie Matheson a bunch or, you know, drew Action Bronson or, uh, all those hosts of back then, I think. And I found it really fun just drawing on illustrator. Um. So from there, once I had worked so hard on the Viceland launch that once it launched, I sort of felt like this weight off me.

I was like, okay, it's out into the world. I can maybe move on. Um, because I didn't think I, I really, I think you can probably agree Viceland is probably the craziest job we will both ever have.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:16:40] I think it's definitely fair to say.

Louisa Cannell: [00:16:41] I mean, one day I would be in an A&E strategy meeting, and the next day would be, you know, making sure that the party bus is

Jon Sorrentino: [00:16:53] like, I feel like, to your point, I mean, the first room that they had me in was like that little closet with like three computers running at like 90 degrees the whole time.

So it was really hot. But, um, I didn't go into a lot of meetings. Because I just would usually have my, the creative directors come back and tell me what happened. But you were in those and I'm sure it's super stressful cause it's like everyone's trying to, one, keep this channel a float and two like make it like the craziest thing ever.

At the same time.

Louisa Cannell: [00:17:19] Yeah. I mean, you know. I feel like I would look down at my list of things to do and it would be like order a hundred Viceland scate boards and prep a pitch deck and you know, launch a screening or things like that. It was really, really fun and it was also very tiring.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:17:38] So you start to build this portfolio and this is sort of like the work that you're doing for friends are doing, you know, as you mentioned a little bit for Goop and stuff like that.

Um. You know, what is the catalyst? So then like really apply to, you know, you end up at refinery 29 next, like how did that start?

Louisa Cannell: [00:17:55] So I had always read refinery and thought of it as such a fun, beautiful place that celebrates women and I really admire their work and I really loved their illustration. So, I thought about it for a really long time and I decided that if I wanted to try illustration, that I needed to do it.

I was, um, maybe 24, 25 at the time. And I applied to their internship and I actually reached out to Piera, um, one of their creative directors on, um, Instagram. And I just said, I really love what you do. I really admire it. And she was so sweet. She responded. And then she connected me to, um, their art director at the time.

Um, and so I ended up getting the internship and I think my mom was probably like, so you're leaving your full time job to be an intern again?

Jon Sorrentino: [00:18:50] That's so awesome.

Louisa Cannell: [00:18:51] So I was very scared, but really excited. And there's also no guarantee that I would become full time from being an intern. Um, and then it just so happened that they had a designer leave like two weeks before I started, and they asked me to come on full time, which was really lucky and great.

But then. I then I was there for almost three years, and it was amazing.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:19:15] That's so crazy to hear that like you having this full time job at a creative but demanding position. Um, and then also having the confidence, I look at it as confidence, right? To just say like, I'm going to do it. Go open up, apply for an internship.

A lot of people wouldn't do that. And then even before that, you know, stirring up conversation with someone that's already in the department. I think like a lot of people just expect people to find them and like know that they're great. And to your credit, you're kind of taking that onto yourself and making those connections already.

Louisa Cannell: [00:19:48] Yeah. I use Instagram all the time and I think that it is always nice to reach out to people that you admire and just say, I love your work. I mean, who doesn't like to hear that they're appreciated? I know. I think it's always good to send that positive vibes out into the universe. Sometimes people don't respond.

Sometimes they just

Jon Sorrentino: [00:20:07] brush it off. It never happened.

Louisa Cannell: [00:20:10] Or you know, they got that nice message and whatever, or they did a little double tap.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:20:14] I like t that they just saw and they kept it to themselves.

Louisa Cannell: [00:20:18] They printed it out. They put it on their desk.  

Jon Sorrentino: [00:20:20] Exactly. I don't know exactly from when you started while you're at refinery when this happened, but you ended up working on like a piece that became very influential.

For the women's movement, the hope not fear piece.

Louisa Cannell: [00:20:31] Yeah. That was about a month in.

Uh, so yeah, I guess I started, or maybe it was a little longer after that, but I guess I started at the end of the year, and then the Women's March was in January, so the Women's March reached out to refinery asking. All of the illustrators and designers there, which first of all, um, refinery is amazing that it has a team of designers and illustrators in house, which is really great.

And so they asked all of us to come up with some posters for the event, um, and they give us a color palette and just sort of some phrases to work with. So hope not fear was one of their lines that they asked us to work with. So I did an illustration of three women, um, in front of the American flag and it really resonated with people and it was really amazing.

And, um, odd people ended up tweeting it and posting about it. And I got so many amazing messages from people around the world. There's a judge from Alaska that said she had bought the print for all of her female colleagues. It was just completely touched my heart. Um. And I think one of the reasons, I mean, this is just my own opinion, but I wonder if one of the reasons that it resonated with people, that so many of the posters that many people that created there were amazing, were very strong and they were powerful.

And they were also really angry. And I think that my piece was about being sad and about, about, um, holding that emotion. And. Almost like cradling it, um, and feeling it rather than being like, fuck you, which we all feel as well, but it's, I think it, it touched on a different emotion.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:22:15] Yeah. I mean, I remember seeing it and then seeing the caption and you were tagged and I was like,

Oh my god! Louisa!

Cause you know, you left.

Like you said, it wasn't too long after you left. And, um. It was just amazing to see you sort of just step right into this role, like seamlessly. It seems there is a lot of work that you put to it, but you just kind of like owned it. Um, and as you said, it resonated with a ton of people. I think didn't Hillary Clinton tweet it?

Louisa Cannell: [00:22:41] Like, that's huge. That's awesome. It was so funny. We, uh, Jeremy, my boyfriend and I were out. To lunch and my phone was dead, so I didn't have it on me. And, um, my mom kept calling Jeremy and, um,

Jon Sorrentino: [00:22:55] he's ignoring

Louisa Cannell: [00:22:56] Turner. We're like, we're eating. Um, so then I answered it and I was like, what's up? What's going on?

And she was like, Hillary Clinton tweeted, your. Um, illustration and me being like, Oh, mom, you don't know you're talking about, I'm like, you saw my illustration, and then you saw her tweet. Like, that doesn't mean that it was the same thing. And then I get home and

Jon Sorrentino: [00:23:17] you're telling your friends how this thing?

Louisa Cannell: [00:23:18] Yeah, just me, you know, explaining to her being obnoxious. Um, and then. I get home and I have like, you know, 10 missed calls and 60 text messages, and I was like, Oh my gosh.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:23:29] Start screaming. That's awesome.

You had said that you were there for three years at refinery

Louisa Cannell: [00:23:36] almost. Yeah.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:23:37] You then decide to step out and go independent.

You know what. What goes through your mind at that point? What kind of informs that decision?

Louisa Cannell: [00:23:45] Um, so working at a refinery was honestly amazing. And the, the other designers and illustrators that I met there are just so wonderful. I learned so much from them. We're all friends now. We just went on a trip to Palm Springs and many of us don't even work at a Refinery anymore.

Um. So a lot of people were moving on and I also was doing so much freelance work outside that I've was realizing that I was more excited to get home and do that work than I was to be at work. And it doesn't have anything to do with the work that was ever finery. It was just more like being able to call my own shots and take the time to illustrate the way I wanted to illustrate and pick the projects that I wanted to work on.

So. I had been thinking about it for a long time and then I gave myself sort of a six month period where both I needed to save money and to say, okay, could I ramp up my freelance work to the point that it could be a full time job. And just sort of test the waters there. And so I basically did two jobs for six months.

Um, and then I was like, okay, I'm ready to do this.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:24:54] How did you, uh, go about like, ramping up, you said, you know, is that like trying to reach out to more companies or brands or things like that?

Louisa Cannell: [00:25:01] Yeah, definitely reaching out, um, sending out postcards, sending out emails. Um, I think just a lot of it's reaching out on Instagram.

Um. Overall, just like taking more projects that maybe I wouldn't have said I had time for in the past.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:25:16] So it's very much that like marketing coordinator kind of kicks in or like, what do I do to reach out and get someone's attention here? I think again, it's like you don't, if anything that I've learned in coming out into the.

Professional industry. It's like you can never just assume that your talent is good enough. There are millions of people out there that are doing the same exact thing as you. And it's like, how do you kind of get the attention of the people that you want to work with? And you know, you're printing materials, your messaging, you're making those connections.

And I think a lot of people don't, um, don't realize that until like, you know, it hits them right in the face that they have to do those things.

Louisa Cannell: [00:25:53] And I listened to another interview recently. I actually can't remember who it was, but they were just talking about every connection you make in your life. Hold onto those and reach out to those people and be nice to them and you never know where something is going to come from.

Um, I'm working on a job. Right now that's through someone I worked with at brides, which seems so long ago. And you know, we've stayed in contact and those things always come around. The creative world is so small that, you know, someone you worked with so long ago might be giving you a job, you know, down the line.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:26:29] In the time that you've been independent, what is it been more than a year, two years now?

Louisa Cannell: [00:26:33] Uh, no, just a little over six months. Oh, wow.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:26:37] Okay. Um, even though it's somewhat fresh, what do you think has been a big learning for you? You know, being able to like now own the time that you work on things, say yes or no to projects.

Like what has been something that you didn't see going into it at first?

Louisa Cannell: [00:26:51] Um, I think what's been really nice is setting myself a start time and an end time, like giving, making myself have a day, being like, okay, I'm going to wake up and then I'm going to end at six. And I think it's been really nice to do that, to make sure that I stick to it.

Normal person's schedule, because you could really, if you're working for yourself, you could just work all day and, and that's not healthy. Definitely. Um, I think going for walks has been important. Um, exercising. I work from my apartment so getting out, seeing people, meeting people for coffee. Um, it's just important to keep yourself socialized.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:27:32] Otherwise, there was a moment after school for me where. I had a job for six months and then I had about three months in between and I was working from home and at the time I was like 22 working from home with my two younger sisters. My parents place. And I think I started going crazy because I'd wake up in my pajamas, basically step over to my desk and started working, and I felt like I was going to stir crazy.

Louisa Cannell: [00:27:56] Oh, I mean, I definitely wear pajamas a lot of the time, but I think if, uh, if I'm feeling. In a rough patch. I'm like, okay, I gotta put on normal clothes.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:28:07] I mean to the pajamas. I tend to just enjoy wearing jeans all the time. I can probably sleep them. Um, what do you think, going into six months of being independent now, is there things that you are noticing in your kind of engagements or, and your, your projects that you've sort of taken note on that you want to work on moving forward?

Louisa Cannell: [00:28:28] Definitely. I think that. Working in motion, doing gifts, doing, um, learning like rough animator and things like that. It's definitely on my to do list. I think that everyone wants movement, you know, that's where probably the future of the money is at for illustration. So I always want to keep learning and I always want to keep honing my skills.

I always want to keep honing my skills, and I don't want to stay complacent. Um. And then also I draw a lot of women. I think that I should trust them more men. Um, yeah. Just to even it up,

Jon Sorrentino: [00:29:03] I've seen a few men pop up on the Instagram. I saw the illustration that you did for the met gala. I don't, I don't know his name, but he had the lines on his face.

Louisa Cannell: [00:29:12] Ezra Miller.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:29:14] So you know, I'm sure you're working in a few hearings. Louisa, where can people find more of your work and potentially get in touch with you?

Louisa Cannell: [00:29:21] Um, Oh, I'm always active on Instagram at Louisa Cannell and, uh, I try to keep my website updated and, um, yeah, I'm in New York city.

Jon Sorrentino: [00:29:31] Louisa, thank you so much for joining me today.

Louisa Cannell: [00:29:32] Thank you.